Learn To Duck - Latest Comments in Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

axon — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:42:52 -0000

Micah--

I've just done some coworking touring of my own, and I don't think it's fair to say it sucks. To the extent that it is essentially a real estate play, it's likely to suck. To the extent that it's a social capital network with a clubhouse, it's catalyzing.

During my tour last week, I got to visit a number of coworking spaces (including missrogue's Citizen Space; hi Tara ;-)), and the first thing I noticed was that they were, um, uninhabited. There were a couple people intent on task at their desks, some meetings taking place in the conference rooms, but mostly they were sort of empty. This was midday midweek.

And, of course, this began to make sense as I thought about it. I think there are four market segments (for want of a better term) for coworking. 1. Sole proprietors. They may have a bricks and mortar business, or some sort of services business (think financial services, mortgage broker, etc.) 2. Freelancers. Designers, programmers, tech writers, trainers, etc. 3. Remote field force. Sales reps and service techs, deployed in the host market. 4. True entrepreneurs trying to start growth companies.

I think these segments describe a pyramid, with the Sole Proprietors being roughly 40%, Freelancers about 30%, Field Force about 20%, and Entrepreneurs probably less than 10%. And with the exception of the entrepreneurs, most of these folks, if they are to be successful, need to spend most of their time in the field, on the road, or on their clients' premises. As such, they don't have a lot to offer in terms of collaborative energy, so their value within the coworking world is arguably minimal. But they still need the functionality, the fat pipe, the copy machine and the meeting rooms.

It that last segment, the true entrepreneur, who is strategically critical to the success of a coworking scene. Partly because they *need* more than simply a work surface and some technology support; they need a creative milieu inhabited by passionate, creative types to brainstorm with. This is why conventional incubators typically fail; not enough inventive critical mass to provoke breakthrough thinking.

For the typical freelancer, a coworking scene may or may not be suitable depending on whether they're just hired gun contractors or solution synthesizers. If you're just hacking code by the line, you're probably better off at home on your big dev box. If you're just slinging out templatized websites, then no, you're not going to find a genuinely collaborative community a very comfortable place to work.

But if your value to your clientele is your imagination, inventiveness, and ability to repurpose existing tools and techniques into new models, then yeah, it takes more than caffeine to get that done...

One thing I've noticed is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of 2.0 glue to these scenes. My hunch is that a coworking scene that also has a virtual dimension, so that members can strike sparks off each other even when they're not even in the center, will ultimately be the most successful. Because we're net-savvy, and because we do need to be out of the office most of the time to succeed, remote presence is critical, and embryonic, to this model.

Sorry for the long post; just a lot of ideas churning.

--Ax

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

maxthemonkey — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:47:28 -0000

ciao micah - I think you need to do some coworking :-)

massimo/cowo milano (italy)

ps - and don't forget to visit us, too!

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

missrogue — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:51:09 -0000

Well, collaboration does happen...not constantly, but it happens quite a
lot. But I think the point to be made is that even though coworking may not
be for you, it works for many others. Whatever floats your boat.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Micah Baldwin — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 10:04:09 -0000

I didnt know there were coworking "pillars." Interesting.

I guess I am going to start having to do tours of coworking spaces.
Most of the spaces I have seen or read about seem to be more about
giving the wayward freelancer a place to set their butt and do some
work. Collaboration seemed to not occur.

I am happy to welcome that the space you discuss exist, I just havent
experienced one yet...

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

missrogue — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:36:58 -0000

Love you both. xo

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

missrogue — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:35:49 -0000

What your describing, indeed, sucks, but as many have already said...this is not the coworking that we have fostered over the years. I don't know if you know about the value pillars of coworking, but they are:

1. Openness
2. Collaboration
3. Community
4. Sustainability
5. Accessibility

This makes coworking a wider community of intent - the idea isn't to replace coffee shops or your living room even...although for some, they do come for that reason...the idea is to provide spaces for people with common goals to collaborate towards achieving them. I personally own a space, which I'm really proud of. It's a community service. It provides a hub for people from all over the world to come to. I don't think anyone is there for the address or to look like they are more professional. They are there because they support the idea of coworking and for the community. A fringe benefit those who participate get is the ability to collaborate with people who have complimentary talents (i.e. a developer meets a designer or a person with a business idea meets a developer, etc.). That's pretty sweet, too.

But then again, Micah, I know that you just like to stirr up stuff. ;)

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Susan Evans — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:11:14 -0000

Thanks for bringing the heat, Micah. Gotta love it when the coworking community gets all fired up, eh? If nothing else these conversations help us to solidify what we're doing and why we're doing it.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Micah Baldwin — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:52:08 -0000

I love how you run to kiss ass, little mister. :)

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Andrew Hyde — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:40:42 -0000

I love how Tara just has to threaten a comment and Micah steps in line.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Micah Baldwin — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:18:52 -0000

Brent, I ran a search marketing firm, so I would assume that my old clients are similar to your current clients. And way to slip the URL in there...impressed! :)

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Micah Baldwin — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:17:01 -0000

even as a non-drinker, I love that place.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Micah Baldwin — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:15:19 -0000

Ok ok! I take back some of what I said. True Coworking spaces (focused on the collaboration and community) are a huge boon to our telecommuting, freelancing, displaced workers of todays tech world. My real point (and part of this post was said tongue in cheek. Never expected the response I got) is that people should work in the places that 1) help them produce the best work; and 2) feel great about that work. If that is in a backyard, a coffee shop or a preformed work space, then fantastic.

The boom of "coworking" spaces has included many places (excluding Danny's in Denver, Alex's in Philly and Matthew's in Houston) that really amount to a "business center" rather than a collaborative working space, which is what makes a true coworking space unique.

I also apologize to those I might have directly offended (Matthew, Alex and others), I love the passion you guys put into the things you do, no matter if they dont appeal directly to me.

And yes Tara, you scare me. ;)

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

missrogue — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:41:54 -0000

I'd respond to this, but I'm eating with Matthew and drinking loads of beer, so I may turn into a potty mouth myself.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Aaron Brazell — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:47:52 -0000

I tried to warn him. He wouldn't listen. :)

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

jeromeusa — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:04:01 -0000

Hi. I'm almost afraid to throw in my 2 cents here, but I thought I'd try to let you know that there are more amped up coworking spaces out there, such as:
http://www.BLANKSPACES.com/... (also see http://www.flickr.com/photo...
http://www.launchpadcoworki... (opening in September)
http://www.lebu.biz/

The "collaborative" and "community" aspects really kick in two ways, at least for us at BLANKSPACES:
1. We have a slew of events here, some hosted by us; others who rent our space to run their own events/mixers.
2. People here are already HIRING each other. In this way, this is an undisputed scenario in which a variety of people work together better than apart.

Jerome

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Micah Baldwin — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:37:07 -0000

I think it depends on the type of business. I had a couple visits
because I always offered to go to the client versus the opposite.
Clients like the fact that they dont have to travel if possible.

Its not that I am Colorado and you are in NYC, its about how I managed
client interaction. Now, if the clients require seeing your servers,
technology, people, etc. it gets much more difficult (understandably
so), but the important thing to remember is that I am in control, not
the clients.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Alex Hillman — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:18:24 -0000

Ha! You guys are too much.

Drinkers is a deal. Look forward to meeting you in the future.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Micah Baldwin — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:15:53 -0000

As I sit here with Aaron Brazell in his Indy Hall tshirt, I am getting it from all directions! I am on the East Coast for a short visit, which will preclude me from getting to Philly, but I promise to add Philly to my itinerary in the next couple of months, and will swing by Indy Hall. As long as you promise a visit to Drinkers Tavern.

And, of course, I would be willing to eat crow, if there is crow to eat. Frankly, I expect that my mind will not be changed as coworking sucks, whether you call it a community or not.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

spike gillespie — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:13:36 -0000

i'm a freelancer in austin and one of my gigs is writing the blog for a soon-to-be-opened coworking space, launchpad coworking (http://launchpadcoworking.com). i work home, alone, the vast majority of the time. but i also cowork sometimes. it allows me to bounce ideas off of other people. it keeps the dogs from resenting me for talking to them too much. and it helps shake my etch-a-sketch clean when i've had too much alone time. the difference between a coffee shop and a coworking space is that in a coworking space it is accepted that-- unless someone has up a do not disturb sign or some equivalent-- then they're most likely down with taking a little time to talk, be it about the weather, work ideas, or where to get a good meal. as an aside, i want to point out in my case that getting along well with people is crucial to my work as an author/journalist/blogger who has a side job performing weddings. i do not spend tons of time with the people i write about and the couples whose ceremonies i perform. however the time i do spend with these people is really important and i have no interest in them coming to my house. for now, we meet in coffee shops or by phone. but i'm really looking forward to having a better space in which to meet them. not to "trick" them into thinking i have a corporate office-- no thank you. just so i know i can have a space reserved and waiting for me and i won't have to compete with whatever music the barista has decided will be the soundtrack for the day.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Nate Westheimer — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:11:20 -0000

Just a note about client visits. It's because you're in Colorado. Seriously. I have people visiting me 2 or 3 times a week, and I would not want to have them meet me at my apartment.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Alex Hillman — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:00:39 -0000

Jacob, Todd, Ted, and Brent have said pretty much everything I would have.

The fact of the matter is, IndyHall existed before we had a single desk to share. And if the desks went away, our community of creative collaborators would still exist.

I hope that you get to hang out in a "real deal" coworking community (note, I said community, not office) and then write a new essay of 3 rules of why coworking doesn't suck.

And then, if it doesn't work for you, let us know why. I know it doesn't work for everyone. But it certainly doesn't suck for the 40+ people in philadelphia who use our facility every day, and the dozens of people who've been impacted by a stronger creative community in Philadelphia.

I understand you're on the east coast at the moment. Any interest in swinging by IndyHall to meet the crew? I'd love to go out for a beer and talk shop.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

TedC — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:40:50 -0000

Sure it's about ideas and creating and some people work better alone. It's also about solidarity. Often, like in Philadelphia, there are barriers and obstacles to free agency. CoWorking is a form of empowerment at the community, economic, and political level that isn't easily achieved alone with a blog and a backyard. Personally, the energy and ideas I've gotten from two CoWorking days with some really, really intelligent and creative people makes going it alone in my yard seem less than optimal. Some people don't need this, but it's nice to know it is there for people who do.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

Todd Sundsted — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:37:49 -0000

> A true coworking space has a varied group of people that in working together are better than working apart.

You nailed it! This is exactly the feature that attracts many people, whether they are coworking at a local Jelly or in a dedicated coworking space. And there are spectacular, concrete examples in play right now of the kind of collaborative work that can come out of this environment. It's worth noting that real estate does play a role -- this isn't virtual -- and in some markets (NYC, London) real estate plays a very important role.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

BrentO — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:16:46 -0000

If coworking was what you described, then yeah, I'd agree. Having telecommuted for years and just recently started coworking, though, I can tell you why it doesn't suck:

1. The million places that offer free wifi don't have desks. They have couches, they have sofa tables and they have tables, but not a real work environment. Think blaring overhead music, bad lighting, and a struggle to find an electric outlet.

2. My clients have been surprised at the coworking concept and impressed by the forward-thinking nature of it - but then again, you and I might have different types of clients. I aim for the kind of clients who will embrace new technology, new trends and new ideas. You might not, and that's cool too. There's room for both of us.

3. I produce a better product when I'm exposed to more disciplines than just my own. In coffee shops, I'm exposed to mothers with screaming babies, weirdo meetups, and homeless people. Those people do not improve my products. At http://carolinecollective.cc/ I'm exposed to people who are starting businesses, go-getters who are actually going and getting - not just running errands.

Re: Three Rules of Why Coworking Sucks

jsayles — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:30:00 -0000

What you describe is a business center. There are many definitions of "coworking" floating around but I assert the defining characteristic of a coworking space is one where it's about the people in the office not the equipment. We are a business, and we have all the stuff people need to do their jobs, but we are not in the stuff rental business. It's a difficult distinction to make, especially in a culture where everyone is focused on the stuff. We actually avoid the topic of defining coworking in words because seeing our space in person is the best way to feel what we are talking about. There are a lot of business centers around, and with all the press coworking has been getting many of them are jumping on the word. There are also many coworking spaces and you will know in an instant what kind of space you are in when you walk in the door and talk with the folks running the place.